Lucy: Hi, I'm Lucy Plá .

Miguel: I'm Madelyne's husband, José Miguel Agosto.

Lucy: What kind of bites does the creature make?

Miguel: Surgical cuts. Perfect ones. If they were made by an animal or wild dogs they would tear the flesh, but no, these ara perfect cuts, as if made by a scalpel.

Lucy: Where on the body does it make them?

From left to right: Madelaine Tolentino (the Lady who saw the Chupacabras), José Pérez (UFOlogist), and me ( Lucy Plá - UFOlogist)Saludos Boricuas (Greetings from Borinquen).

Miguel: Around the throat area or near the genitals. In many cases it has taken the animal's genitals.

Lucy: How does it remove them?

Miguel: It apparently rips them out and takes them, since they are nowhere to be found. It has taken their livers and other body parts. They once brought a rooster which had had all the inside of its head taken out. You'd look at the rooster and it was hollow. It had its head, but hollow.

Lucy: But how could it have extracted the contents of a head?

Miguel: By means of some incisions it made. There's no good explanation for it.

José: Dead animals are turning up in Miami.

Miguel: And in California.

Lucy: Have there been cases involving household animals such as dogs?

MT: Goats, rabbits, roosters, cats...

Miguel: The cats in Juncos. We went there because she called us. The lady called the Civil Defense, the police, the Fortaleza [Governor's Resience] and nobody, nobody went.

MT: And we had to go show our faces. No one wanted to listen to her. No one.

Lucy: What became of the cats?

MT: They lived.

Lucy: What happened to them?

MT: It made some orifices beside their anuses. Excreta was coming out of the orifices. The lady was scared.

Miguel: She noticed that the cats were [urinating and defecating] all at once. She had two cats. There were three punctures and some of them only had one.

Lucy: What else have you seen?

Miguel: Here in Barrio Quebrada Prieta in Canóvanas there was also the case of some mutilated sheep. Some TV cameramen showed up and when they lifted the goat's foot, it had a tiny little hole. Suddenly, the hole sort of opened and they could see its intestines and everything else inside. The cameraman filmed it all with his camera. It's as if its ribs were missing.

Lucy: What was around the sheep?

Miguel: There was no blood on the wound nor on the ground.

José: No blood?

Miguel: It sometimes leaves them with some blood. The strange thing is that when it leaves them with some blood, it won't flow. The blood remains within the body.

José: It coagulates?

Miguel: No, it's not coagulated and it doesnt' flow either. We noticed at Lt. Jorge Rivera's house, when we were checking out some goats and sheep, that the characteristics were exactly the same. In other words, three perforations and in some cases only a single one running from one side to another. The sheep had been dead for a day or more and were still flexible, not stiff at all. These are the things that make you think. It's as if the creature gave them a liquid that kept them entirely flexible and kept their blood from coagulating.

José: Did they smell?

Miguel: Yes, very strongly. A bad odor.

José: Was it the typical smell of decomposition?

Miguel: Well...yes, somewhat. But please remember that when an animal decomposes the worms appear right away, and there were no worms either.

Lucy: Would other animals come close?

Miguel: No. That was weird, too.

Lucy: Has anyone noticed smells or noises when the mutilations occur?

Miguel: Yes. In the Lomas del Viento sector of Campo Rico we observed the area where the creature was appeareing 3 to 4 days in a row. One of those days, a girl saw the creature walking down in the pose everyone has seen it adopt: on two legs with its arms in an attack gesture. That day she told her husband, who doubted it because it was so hard to believe. The following day we found the dead sheep and goat. We reported to the scene and there were also some Civil Defense elements.

Lucy: What does the Civil Defense do in such cases?

Miguel: Frankly, some of them took notice of the case, but the cameramen from Channel 11 and others showed up looking for evidence. We had a dying goat with several perforation. We were able to check it out completely.

Lucy: Are you with the Civil Defense?

Miguel: No, but as any responsible citizen and volunteer I'm interested, having had the experience of seeing the creature and reaching a conclusion of what is going on.

José: Do you know Chemo?

Miguel: Yes. After we checked out the sheep, we found it had few perforations and little blood. We wished to speak with Dr. Carlos Soto, the veterinarian, who had told us that any dying animal or any one adequate for his study should be taken to his office. He said he would help us out. We called and he told us to bring it in, since it was still alive. When we spoke to Mr. Aguayo of the Civil Defense, he said no.

Lucy: Why did he say no?

Miguel: Because he wasn't authorized to leave the jurisdiction. I believe that in an emergency situation such as this one, the Civil Defense should be able to leave their jurisdiction. I believe the situation calls for more government help in order to benefit the investigation.

Lucy: Is the government not involving itself?

Miguel: I'd say a little bit more now. If they had let us take the dying sheep to Dr. Soto at that moment, we would be closer to the truth.

Lucy: No one wanted to bring it in?

Miguel: We could've, but my Jeep was in no condition to make a long trip. We called Dr. Soto and he came the following day. The sheep died as he arrived...he was able to take samples.

Lucy: What were the results?

Miguel: The samples showed that the attacker was no known animal. He has conducted many autopsies and says that what is killing these animals is nothing known.

Lucy: At what time did you see the creature?

Miguel: It was around 7:00 a.m. I was in my shop fixing a truck. When I turned the ignition over it made a very loud noise. I ran down to see what was going on and I noticed that creature coming out from under the engine. It's worth noting that the pad cover was missing between the fan and the radiator. There was a space about a foot to a foot and a half wide where someone could have hidden. It ran out, gave me a look, and jumped over the fence.

Lucy: How did it jump?

Miguel: It propelled itself upward. It jumped all of a sudden.

Lucy: How did it fall?

Miguel: Frankly, the creature never hit the ground. It jumped and vanished at a spectacular speed.

Lucy: Could you measure the speed?

Miguel: It was too fast. It was like seeing a reflection.

Lucy: Were the fins on its back moving?

Miguel: I didn't get to see that, but when it came out I noticed that it looked like a kangaroo. It was large, like a giant rabbit, but it lacked the tail and the front pouch of a kangaroo. I'm knowledgeble about animals and birds and I've never seen anything like this creature.

Lucy: What were its skin and hair like?

Miguel: Short, but thick and well combed. When I opened the truck's hood I saw a lot of hair and wool in the air.

Lucy: Did you take samples?

Miguel: No, because I was uncertain about what it was.

Lucy: Did you notice any smells?

Miguel: Yes. I thought it was battery acid. I thought the truck's battery was leaking. I never thought that the creature was producing it.

Lucy: Did you hear noise or buzzing?

Miguel: No, none. But the second time I saw it, when my wife was coming along Route 185 in Canóvanas back home and saw the creature for the second time. She told me what she'd seen and I got on the van with her uncle and reported to the scene. We saw nothing at first.When we left we decided to take a look in the woods bordering the Loiza Valley development, since the creature had killed some rabbits there. When we reached the place, the creature floated right over us, suspended in the air.

Lucy: Was it flying?

Miguel: No, not flying. I know what it is to see a bird fly or balance itself. This thing was floating.

Lucy: Did it flap its fins?

Miguel: We couldn't tell if it did or not. It was already around 8:00 p.m. We saw the animal's silhouette. It had human-like arms and legs. It was precisely the same creature but suspended in the air.

Lucy: How long was it suspended?

Miguel: About a minute at a height of 25 feet. We could see it well, because of the full moon. It was a clear night and the reflection [of the city lights] helped us out.

Lucy: In other words, it levitated?

Miguel: Exactly. It was defying the laws of gravity.

Lucy: Was it looking at you?

Miguel: Apparently it was aware of us. My wife's uncle, who was with me, is a fifty-six year old gentleman and was very scared.

Lucy: How old are you?

Miguel: Thirty-two. I was also shocked to see a creature suspended in mid-air. People are saying that its a wild dog o ape, but no dog or ape can hang in the air like this one. What is it we're dealing with? It's a completely unknown creature.

Lucy: What's your take on this creature?

Miguel: In my opinion, it could be an experiment that we aren't aware of.

Lucy: You mean an experiment conducted by humans?

Miguel: Exactly.

Lucy: Have you had UFOs or extraterrestrials around these parts?

Miguel: My neighbor was close to one of them.

Lucy: What did he see?

Miguel: A large saucer with many lights, about thirty or forty meters wide, suspended in the air and making a loud buzzing sound.

José: How high up was it?

Miguel: Some 40 or 50 feet high. They looked at it for a good long while. After some 3 minutes more or less, it disappeared. I was looking toward El Yunque once and I noticed a star-like thing that was shooting colored laser beams sideways. We saw it for a few minutes before it vanished.

Lucy: What is the purpose of the gear Linda Moulton gave you?

Miguel: Infrared equipment. She originally told us that it was from CNN or something like that. She's a reporter and devotes herself to investigating this phenomenon. She's written books and all. She gave it to me as a gift, since we've taken it upon ourselves to continue the investigation after having had our own experience.

Lucy: In other words, you go out every day hoping to catch it?

Miguel: Almost every night. What I want to do is take its picture.

Lucy: What is that you're holding?

Miguel: It's a mock-up of the project we're conducting.

Note: The mock-up is contained in a box. It represents a field with a wire box in its middle, connected with cables to the far right, where it connects to another box. At the left, there's a figure of a man holding a camera.

Miguel: See? This would be me holding the camera...this is a decoy, a bird or a sheep...and this [points elsewhere] is where we were going to ground a battery cable with the positive cable grounded as well, to create a magnetic field of sorts...this is a project which some scientists believed would attract the creature, but it didn't work.

Lucy: What was the name of the project and who directed it?

Miguel: Project EPOCA. It was directed by Linda Moulton and John Caldea.

Lucy: When was it conducted?

Miguel: From December 1995 to January 1996.

Lucy: How long did it last?

Miguel: Some two months or so, almost every night.

Lucy: What else has happened?

Miguel: One night, Chemo, the mayor of Canóvanas, called me at two o'clock in the morning because some people had had a close encounter with the creature that night. We reported to the area. We checked it out and the animals were restless.

Lucy: Who went?

Miguel: Only ourselves. Chemo didn't want to call the Civil Defense, saying that they would make too much noise.

Lucy: What equipment did you carry?

Miguel: A photo camera, since our goal is to capture it on film.

MT: Miguel, tell her about the piece of meat from Lomas del Viento.

Miguel: Oh,right! I found a piece of meat. That was in Lt. Jorge Rivera's home. It was a rather large chunk. It was stuck inside a cubbyhole he uses to store tools. That's where the piece of meat was.

Lucy: What's so special about this piece of meat?

Miguel: It was fresh and covered with slime.

Lucy: Did you have it analyzed?

Miguel: No, because quite frankly, it was unpleasant. No one dared pull it out and bring in for analysis. In another place we found a hair sample with the same unpleasant odor emitted by the creature.

Lucy: What did you do with it?

Miguel: I gave it to Jorge Martín. He took it to be analyzed. He later told me that the analysis proved that it didn't belong to any known animal.

Lucy: What else has happened?

Miguel: We went to a place in Dorado because some spaceships had allegedly deposited some creatures. We investigated but had no results whatsoever.

Lucy: Who told you that a spaceship had dropped off creatures?

Miguel: Area residents.

Lucy: What was it they saw?

Miguel: Mr. Jorge Martín of "Evidencia Ovni" magazine could give you a better answer. Some said that they descended from the saucer. Others say that they came down in single file with slightly taller beings. Some of thei neighbors pointed out that the lagoons in the region would bubble up when those creatures were present. They bubbled strangely.

Lucy: So you're telling me that the mere presence of the creatures in the area caused the water to bubble?

Miguel: Yes.

Lucy: What else concerning the Chupacabras?

Miguel: The creature attacked a Chow dog at policeman Juan Collazo's home. He heard some noises in the lower part of his home. He went down with his service revolver and he saw the creature attacking his dog. He immediately fired at it. His car was parked behind the creature. The creature took the bullet's initial impact, bounced off the wall, took off in a flash and disappeared. He says that it flew off. Something truly incredible.

Lucy: Was the dog struggling with the creature?

Miguel: There was a struggle between the dog and the creature. That's what he heard.

Lucy: Did the creature get to hurt the dog?

Miguel: The creature had apparently shaved the place on the dog where it was going to make its incision.

Lucy: So you're telling me that the creature cleans the spot where it's going to make the incision?

Miguel: Precisely. In fact, when we visited Mr. Negrón's house in Campo Rico, in the La Pir mide sector, we found a sheep with perforations which had a cauterized area surrounding them. There were no traces of blood on the sheep or the surrounding area.

Lucy: Is the slime a constant factor in all cases?

Miguel: No, only in some. There are others in which the animal has no blood inside. The incised area doesn't look inflamed either.

Lucy: What are the incisions like?

Miguel: Sometimes they're perfect circles.

Lucy: What size?

Miguel: Some two or three inches more or less. They expand, but there's no inflammation in the area.

Lucy: Are there organs missing in every case?

Miguel: In almost every case. They once brought us a rooster that was missing its brains. It almost always tears off the left ear. In other cases it has taken bones from the trachea, the jawbones -- all through tiny holes. I'm not sure if you noticed that a sheep in Miami had part of its ribcage drawn out through a tiny hole. It's incredible. Elieser Rivera and I reached the conclusion that it could be something like a spur that emerges from its mouth. It could be that the spur helps it perforate and extract the organs, fluids and bones from the animal.

Lucy: What's the name of your friend who saw the creature produce the spur from its mouth the day Madelyne saw it?

Miguel: Mr. Elieser Rivera.

Lucy: Do you feel there's more than one creature?

Miguel: Yes, because Mr. Jorge Martín is in touch with us. He tells us where there's been activity at the time.

Lucy: When was the last time you saw the creature around here?

Miguel: A month ago. There was a case while I was in Miami and there was another in Vieques.

Lucy: Has it ever attacked anyone?

Miguel: No, I don't think so.

Lucy: Do you carry weapons on your searches?

Miguel: Elieser Rivera was armed and he couldn't fire. Lt. Rivera carried a shotgun and he couldn't fire. It's as if the thing controlledhis mind. When Collazo fired at it the bullet went out. The creature shed no blood and the distance was only nine feet.

Lucy: Where was the first mutilation in Puerto Rico?

Miguel: Here and then in Orocovis.

Lucy: Have other people seen the creature and confirmed the description?

Miguel: Yes. This thing is real.

Lucy: Is the sketch we have here the one based on your description of the creature?

Miguel: Yes. It was made by Jorge Martín. It's the right one, but the spines don't come out of its head. They start farther down.

Lucy: Well, many thanks for your cooperation and your hospitality.

Miguel: Thank you.

Thank to Mr. Scott Carrales for the traduction work of this interview. This interview is going to be in Mr. Scott Carrales book "Chupacabras and Other Mysteries" that is going to be available to the public this August 1997.

Story continues: Part III